VETERANS HISTORY PROJECT Interview of WILLIAM D. RIBBENS 3:00 p.m., August 14, 2004 Baton Rouge, Louisiana Interviewed by: DAVID MEYER O'SHEA Transcribed by: DEBRA P. CODIGA, CSR 5647 Transcribed: July 4, 2007 1 (BEGIN CD NO. 2.) (CD No. 1 defective; no recording and no transcription available.) A: BY MR. RIBBENS: ... here with his two boys, a ten-year-old and a 14-year-old. And .... Q: BY MR. O'SHEA: Now, what -- they must ask you stories about it. A: Oh, yeah, they do. Yeah. Q: What -- what kind of story do you think they would like to hear, or what do they -- A: They would like to hear? Q: Yeah. A: Well, generally, the first story I tell a lot of these people is kind of a scary one. And it's been recorded in Joe Jang (ph), whatever his name's -- Q: Yeah. A: -- book is. It has something in there. That was my baptism of fire because, with the scouts, you did a lot of patrol work, and most of it at night. But that was a daytime patrol, and we had to do some reconnaissance work. And we were sent down kind of a wagon trail, not much -- not a road, but a wagon trail through the woods, and they were -- the enemy was down in there somewhere. We had to head down that way. And we went down maybe a quarter of a mile or 2 something or like that. And we were moving along pretty quietly. This is all new for us. It's sort of an adventure yet, you know, but we also knew that we had to be pretty quiet, not let our position be known. And -- and we're not in the center of the trail; we're hugging the trees on the sides, you know, when we're walking along. And right across from me, Harry Baron, another one of the scouts -- and I had known him for several months already -- stepped on a mine. And boy, that just blew him into eternity right now. I mean right away. And it sets your mind to thinking. I mean we all hit the dirt as fast as could be. So we're all on the ground. There were probably eight or ten of us in the patrol. So we're all on the ground. So what do you do? That could have been me; right? First thought. And we got to get out of here because now the enemy knows; there's a signal. They could drop mortars in on us real fast. What way do we go out of here? Where's the next mine? And all these things are racing through your mind like fury, you know. And somebody's got to take the leadership, and somebody did, and we finally followed him out of there. But that was a -- that was a moment that was filled 3 with racing thoughts in maybe a minute or two of time before we got out of there, you know. And it was really the first realization -- I mean very real realization -- this is life or death. This is very, very dangerous. You're living on the edge. And this was early in our experience in our combat there, and I always looked at it as, really, kind of an initial preparation for the next six months over there. I mean every day you're putting your life on the line. But that made it so very, very real. And it can be (snaps fingers) instantaneous. Unbelievable. I've gone through that so many, many times in my thoughts. One minute, you know, Harry like the rest of us: healthy, strong, brilliant young student from Brooklyn. (Snaps fingers.) Just like that, he's gone. I'll tell you, it makes you think. Yeah. And -- and really, you know, it's an unseen enemy. It's a mine. There isn't any real, personal, German anger, murderous thought or anything like that at that time. Nobody's shooting at you. It's a mine. Deadly. So danger's all around you. Unseen danger. It's -- it's all around you. So you have to learn to live with that, and you really can't. So really, the next six months, you're on edge, in a sense, every day, not only for the seen and heard violence, but the unseen and the 4 unpredictable. And that's scary. Q: That's scary, yes. A: So it's bound to change people. And the guys that were in there -- as you know from your dad, the guys that were in there came back changed people, you know. Yeah. So .... Q: When you look, since -- since you're a pastor -- but you weren't a pastor when you went in? A: No. Just an infantryman like all the other guys. Q: Did your experience in the war -- did -- does that have any relationship to you becoming a pastor? A: Yeah. Because I had just completed college with a teaching certificate in math and chemistry, and my aim had been to be a high school teacher. And when I got back and I looked into the possibility of going for my master's in -- in math or -- so I even checked it out at Marquette University. I was there, and this is not for me. This isn't what I'm called to do. And I came to -- to the conclusion that something that had -- had tempted me, you might say, several times during college years, but I never -- I knew I couldn't do it. I had to study for the ministry. So that's when I began it. And after I got back, I went into it. So I finished seminary and took my first call in 1949. That's a long time ago. That's a long time 5 ago. Q: With war, did -- and then my father, I know, always felt, when he looked back on things and he'd see how lucky people were, the survivors -- A: Yeah. Q: -- and -- and unlucky people had been, and he would say, "Praise the Lord," that it didn't happen to him. A: Yep. That's right. Q: From your perspective, did -- did prayer help? A: Yeah. It does individually. I mean those moments when I was on the ground there, it was a most scary introduction to combat. And when we left that point, I had a tremendous peace, and I could leave there and go on with a peace because I -- I wrestled -- you might almost say momentarily, but I wrestled with this thought: This could have been me. What if it had been? And just a complete trusting in God. My life was in his hands whether I left or stayed. And, really, throughout the rest of it -- not that I never got scared. I got scared almost every time we were on a patrol, especially. But it was a different kind of being scared. It was -- it was some fears and anxieties, but also a constant recognition that I was entrusted to him, and he would care for me, his will be done. Q: As it would be done. 6 A: Yeah. So I was ready for that. A lot of prayer every day, really, and a lot of prayers back home. Yeah. Yeah. Q: Is there anything else you think they'd like to hear, any other story? A: Oh, I can give one that's a little bit different than all the rest, perhaps. One of our last patrols -- and this is in the Ruhr Pocket. And it was -- it was a night patrol. We had to cross a river, and we had to take a little farm community in that western part of Germany. They had these little farm communities. They have about four farms together and then the fields all around the farms. And that was on -- on the way for the progress of the companies the next day, and they wanted to have that place secured. So we had to go in there and -- and take whatever German soldiers were in there, holding it sort of almost as an outpost -- take them out of there and then hold the position ourselves, which we did. We went in there, and without firing a shot, we -- we removed all the German soldiers and took them back with the boat across. And then the rest of us had to occupy different places in this little farm settlement. And I was kind of assigned to an upper room with a lot of visibility in the morning. And actually, it was a two-room apartment. 7 A lot of people had fled the cities, and they were living out in these farms, and they had made an apartment out of two rooms there. One was a bedroom; one was sort of their kitchen. And I had -- I spent the rest of the night there until -- till dawn and -- and waited until the troops were by us, and then we could sleep for the next night. So there was a farmer -- or there was a man there, and his wife and a 19-year-old girl, that occupied that from one of the cities, then, and they were occupying this little apartment. And I said I had to sleep. In the kitchen, they had a German bed. It's like a single couch, and it rises up on the end like that, you know (indicating). And I laid down there, and I -- I put my rifle on the floor next to the bed. I suppose I took the clip out. I don't remember. By that time, I was ready to sleep. Well, I slept sound as can be, you know. And they kept quiet and all that. At noon, the man pushed me on the shoulder, you know, lightly, and he said, "Essen." Time to eat. Essen. Over there. Well, I looked. There's the kitchen table set for four. And they showed me to one of the seats, and they were sitting down. And he bows his head and leads us 8 in prayer. And I could understand enough of it to know what a lot of Thanksgivings was in it. And there I'm sitting down; they're supposed to be my enemies, and we were eating together and praying together. What a terrific privilege it was, you know. If you've got any hate or any of that kind of a feeling, that washes it away. You get an experience, you know, this is -- you're dealing with human beings. And these people were so thrilled that it was over for them, and it was over without firing a shot, and -- Q: Uh-huh. A: -- they were now free. And then I learned that this 19-year-old girl had a -- she was engaged to a German soldier who was on the eastern front, and of course they didn't know where he was or if they'd ever see him again. So it was a wonderful experience. I was very, very thankful for it. That evening, the people in this little farm community put on a chicken dinner for all of us guys that were there before we went out for our next patrol. Q: That's a good story. A: Well, it's beautiful when you think of it, you know. This war could come to an end with people coming to 9 friendship, almost. Yeah. I'm thankful for it. It was a good experience. Yep. But I didn't write down their names or anything like that. I went on from there. I would have liked to have contacted them later, you know, but that was it. One-time experience, but it was a good one. Yep. Q: Thanks. Will you give your name and your -- your rank? A: Well, in the combat scouts, you came in with a rank and you kept it. They didn't have any promotions or anything during the whole time you were in combat. You went in as a PFC; you stayed a PFC. The only change -- there was a couple of guys who were moved up with a battlefield commission because when we -- the thing started with volunteers, 33 men, and there were two lieutenants. But it wasn't too long, they were out of action, so they had to have an officer or two. So there were a couple of battlefield commissions. For the rest, you kept your rank until afterwards. So then after I got -- after the war, we were returned to our companies. I went back to Company A and then was promoted to staff sergeant. So I got out as a staff sergeant. Q: Okay. And you became -- you got out -- did you get out at Shelby? 10 A: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Just before Thanksgiving 1945. Q: A lot of people did. A: Yeah. That's right. Q: I remember my father saying how he got a Thanksgiving dinner at home. A: I got it on the way home. I stopped by an uncle and aunt in Chicago on my way home to Wisconsin. Yeah. So when we drove down here now -- my son brought us down from Virginia. We came by Hattiesburg. I said to my wife, "You want to stop in over here at Hattiesburg?" We had just gotten married after -- on our -- our furlough when we returned. That 30-day recuperation furlough is when we got married. And she worked for a little while in the hospital there in Hattiesburg. I said, "You want to look up that hospital?" But we didn't go look for it. So I went in with Company A, and I got out with Company A, but served with the combat scouts. People say, "What is the combat scouts?" I tell them, "Well, nowadays you hear about special forces. We were special forces in World War II." Q: You were special forces. A: Yeah. Q: Were there Rangers too, or were those, you know, the special forces? 11 A: In some -- in some units, they did have Rangers. The 95th didn't have any Rangers. Q: So you were sort of the Rangers? A: Yep. Yeah. General Twaddle learned that the infantry divisions in Italy -- after North African and Sicily, they moved into Italy, and they found out that when they were in combat all day long, they couldn't do effective patrol work at night. So Twaddle heard about that three months before we went overseas, and then he initiated this. He wanted to get combat scouts attached to regiment. They could be assigned with any of the companies or in any of the company areas, you might say, for patrol work at night. And they started off with 33 men, but of course they had to have replacements. And after it was all over, some of us guys got together, and we -- best we could figure, during the whole time of combat, which is about six months, there were 58 of us that served in the scouts, and only six that did not get killed or have injuries, wounds. Yeah. I was one of them. So there were a lots of casualties in the group. Q: Did you have special training as a combat scout? A: Well, it's kind of funny. We didn't have any training. We went through England, you know, and we got into France and the apple orchards there, and -- and 12 Patton wanted the division to help him out getting gas. So they recruited a whole bunch of guys to -- Q: The Red Bull? A: Yeah. The Red Bull Express. And the rest of us were supposed to get some more training. Well, then they gave us scouts some training. All I can remember of it is it was conditioning, but it included something I'd never had in conditioning before, never anticipated before: boxing. We had to learn boxing. But they figured we were going to get a lot of close combat, you know, personal contact and all that kind of stuff. I couldn't see myself boxing, but had to have that training too. But I think the main thing was -- and my desire to be in it was -- being independent, in a sense. You had to make your own decisions. Of course, line company guys had to do that too, but -- but here, there just wasn't rank. We were all -- all the same, you might say. A guy would get picked to lead a patrol some night or something like that. But everybody had to be just ready to make the decisions, take leadership and -- and do it. Yeah. So I came back with a few experiences under my belt. But that helped in the ministry many times. You couldn't talk about all that happened, but you could gather from it different illustrations that -- that, you know, related to 13 personal life. Q: I know that I -- I have that appreciation about my father would talk about certain things, certain things he wouldn't talk about. A: Right. Q: And there are -- with the soldiers now over there -- A: Yeah. Q: -- the same thing will happen. They'll come back -- A: Yeah. Q. -- with those. A: Yeah. Q: And having someone in your position, who understands the experience -- A: Uh-huh. Q: -- is -- is the rest of -- I think if you don't understand it, you don't even see it. A: You can't figure it out, you know. And you can't figure them out. Q: No. A: Well, that's right. Yeah. We try to compare it all the time. I know my wife and I talk about it a lot. But the thing that she -- the big contrast that she sees, today's fighting and back then, is today you got all this media stuff and all this contact. I mean these guys can e-mail their families and 14 all. They can call them up with cell phones and all that kind of stuff. And the wives and the engaged -- the fiancees and all that kind of stuff in World War II, they just lived with the unknown. We wrote letters, and we numbered them. Each month, we would start over with numbers. And in January of '45, while the Battle of the Bulge was still on -- we were right next to that -- she got my letter No. 1, and then she didn't hear from me, and she didn't hear from me, and she didn't hear from me. The next letter that she got was No. 12. So it's a long time, and the Bulge is going on. And she knows about where we are. And she didn't know if she was ever going to get another letter or if she was going to get a visit, you know, from a -- an officer or a chaplain or something like that. Waiting with that unknown. That -- that was horrible. Q: Yes. A: Yep. Yep. Q: That's horrible all around. A: Yep. So I think that's one of the things that can't be repeated because we're in a communication age now, and there's always communication. And people are unhappy if they can't get the last word, the latest news from the field, you know. 15 Q: That's right. A: So I don't know if you have more information and more pictures and all that kind of stuff, if it would make it worse or not. I know in World War II, the people at home didn't see the kind of destruction that you can see now, you know. Q: Yeah. A: But I think that's a blessing. You don't have those images in your mind all the time that they have now. Q: I know the media -- A: Right. Q: -- they're putting a spin on the images. A: That's right. Exactly. Q: Telling us what to think, what's right, what's wrong. A: Yep. Q: And they're politicizing it. A: I only met one news person out there, a guy from the Chicago Tribune. And he came up to our unit, and a bunch of us were together there one day, and he just kind of interviewed us, you know. And then he said, "Any of you guys ever read the Chicago Tribune?" Well, I'd been a paper carrier of the Tribune for about four years. So then he kind of interviewed me, you know. Well, I lived in Wisconsin, and he wanted to know a little bit about it. And anyway, I 16 told him, you know, I'd carried papers right long the shores of Lake Michigan. In fact, right about where the PGA golf tournament is now, a couples miles from there. And lo and behold, one day a few days later, my parents got, in the mail, a copy of the Chicago Tribune. And they called attention to an article. He had his report in there. Well, they didn't even know where I was. He wasn't doing them a favor, you know. He's talking all about where he was up there with the 95th and the battle of Metz and all this kind of stuff, you know. And -- and apparently he could do that as a news reporter. And that was kind of a scary eye opener to them. Yeah. Q: How -- how did they feel about you joining, or were you drafted? A: Drafted. Q: Okay. A: Yeah. I was deferred my last year -- to finish my last year of college, but then I had to go in. Yeah. And then I had a brother who was in the Navy, but he went in a couple years later. He just -- he was in in '45, but he never saw any action. Yeah. And my dad had served in World War I, so .... Q: What -- when you look back at what you learned from 17 it, is that -- what did you learn when you look back? I don't know if I asked this question before, if it's even a -- a question that applies, but -- You may have answered, but do you think you -- there's something you learned from it? Well, I mean you may have said -- said it before. A: Well, I'll tell you. Well, here's something that I wrestle with today -- I was talking to one of the guys at the dinner last night about it -- with what's going on in Iraq and all that. I said -- Augie Calipetro. I said, "You've been thinking at all about -- lately about when we were over there -- they talk about, you know, the greatest generation and all this stuff, you know -- what made us get up of a morning and just go ahead and do what we had to do, putting our life on the line day after day after day, not knowing what's ahead of us and all that stuff, but not turning our backs and running, you know. Just accepting the task and carrying it out. What made us do that, you know? And how do you define it?" Now people talk, you know, and they go back about the iron men, the best and the brave and all that kind of stuff. But at the time, that doesn't -- you know, that doesn't ring a bell. And yet every day, there's some kind of a commitment. 18 Today they're talking about the guys in Iraq as being especially patriotic. And I suppose there's some of that in it. But all the time I was over there, I never saw a flag, you know. I think the years of the Depression were preparation for World War II. The Depression years were years -- I know we were brought up in it -- that you appreciated what you had because you had so little. Q: Uh-huh. A: And you learned to work, even though you didn't get much more it, but you went in to work. And there was something like a commitment to life and to living and to helping each other. And that was put to the test when we got over there, you know. Yeah. Yep. Q: I heard that there's a woman from Alsace-Lorraine. A: Oh, yeah. Elizabeth? Q: Yeah. The other one who came back -- oh, Lequirique (ph)? I'm not sure. Maybe it was Elizabeth. She and her husband was there today. And -- (Interruption in recording.) A: And I'll see you in the morning for that thing -- Q. Okay. A: -- a little before nine o'clock or something like that. 19 MR. O'SHEA: Again, that's Bill Ribbens, 36 -- MR. RIBBENS: 36830325. MR. O'SHEA: 36830325. Okay. Okay. MR. RIBBENS: Funny how some things stick with you. After 60 years, we can -- how often we had to rattle that thing off, you know. MR. O'SHEA: Okay. Well, I'll see you later. I'll see you at dinner. Bye. (END CD NO. 2.) (End of interview of WILLIAM D. RIBBENS.) --o0o-- 20